Transcript 0:00 Welcome to Calling Operator, [upbeat music] the podcast where we speak to operators in some of Australia's biggest startups, find out how they got there and what their impact is. Operator. 0:13 Connecting to Monica Masaoka, Global Revenue Operations at Airwallex. [static crackling] Hello, Monica, and welcome to the podcast. Hello, Paloma. Thanks for having me. So excited about this one. 0:28 It's been a few months in the making [laughs]. Yeah, I know. It's finally coming to fruition [laughs]. So let's dive in. 0:36 I think the first thing I'm just gonna ask you is, give us a bit of a backstory on, you know, where you grew up and who you are. Yeah. I've always been in Sydney, born and bred. 0:47 My mom is in Albury, my dad was in Japan, so a bit of a mixed background there. 0:53 But yeah, my siblings and I have always grown up in Sydney, and I just, I love it here, so I don't think I'll ever move from Sydney, to be honest. So your dad has been in Japan, is that your whole life? 1:04 Since I was eight. He did pass away 10 years ago, but- Oh, babe... it was nice to go over there and visit him and see him then. But it was, yeah, it was something I've always sort of been used to, I guess. Sure. 1:15 Different relationship, father, father relationship. And your mom is in Albury? Yeah, mom's in Albury. That's where mom's side lives. She did... Well, they both met in Sydney. 1:25 I think mom moved to Sydney when she was around 18, and they both worked for Panasonic. Bit of a throwback brand [laughs]. And then, yeah, I think she always wanted that country, countryside again, or small town vibe. 1:38 Sydney, Sydney just got too much of a big city, so she went back. Do you think, do you think you'll end up back in Albury? Absolutely not [laughs]. [laughs] So whereabouts in Japan was your dad? 1:48 He was from Osaka, so down south of Japan, which is pretty much known as the food capital of Japan. 1:55 Yeah, it's a really cool place, and I'm actually going there next year in February to ski, so very excited to- I'm going in January to ski, and I've never seen snow nor been skiing [laughs]. 2:06 Oh my God, we need to go together. I've ne- I've not... I've literally bought all the gear. I'm definition of all the gear, no idea. 2:13 So we were meant to go this weekend and practice it at Falls Creek near Albury, but there's no snow. So it looks like a g- golf course. Ah. Are you gonna get lessons? Yeah, I mean, in Japan. Yeah, absolutely. 2:26 So how often did you go when you were younger? Probably every two years, and then my dad was really big on schoolwork and studying really hard, just from the way he grew up. 2:36 So when it came towards, you know, my years 11 and 12 in high school, he was pretty much like, "Stay focused on your studies. Don't come over," which was really unfortunate because during my year 12 exams he passed away. 2:48 So we did get to go over and say goodbye, but that was smack bang in the middle of midyear exams. That was- That is so rough. Yeah, of course. So w- did, did you know, was he sick or was it quite sudden? 3:01 Yeah, he was sick. He had liver cancer and unfortunately his condition just got worse, so... But it was, it was still a blessing that we could go over and, and, you know. Yeah. Of course. So all right. 3:13 Well, let's start on the early years. So obviously tra- quite a traumatic year 12 experience, and then what happened after high school? 3:20 So I think this is sort of where it all started really, because after high school, at the time it was very much like you either take a gap year or you go to uni. 3:29 That's what I had in my head, and that's what I always told myself, is you gotta do one or the other. And all my friends went and did the whole Europe trip, you know, saved up, went and traveled, and I just... 3:41 I don't, to be honest, I think it came down to laziness, that I was just not bothered to save up money and I was just like, "I'm just gonna start working." But I was like, "You must go to uni." 3:50 And I wasn't really sure what I wanted to do. It was in... 3:54 Yeah, and I think in school you became really narrow-minded in terms of, you know, you don't go to a certain uni, you know, you're not gonna make it, your ATAR is, defines you. 4:05 So I very much had that instilled in my brain. I ended up selecting speech and hearing sciences at Macquarie Uni. So I studied that for a year and a half. 4:14 I found out about speech therapy through a friend who I was playing netball with, and she was telling me about it. 4:20 And I think it was really interesting because in my head I was like, you're a speech therapist, you work with young children. I know my brother had one growing up. 4:27 But there were other sort of scenarios she said you can work in, like she worked in a hospital and helped people who had suffered from strokes, um, learning how to speak and swallow, and I was like, "Oh, okay, that sounds pretty interesting." 4:38 So I just chose that, but I didn't really put so much thought into it in terms of like, is this really what I wanna do? 4:44 So yeah, that was my starting point at Macquarie Uni, and then a year and a half when I was like, do I wanna do this as my career? It's pretty focused in this area, and I wasn't... 4:54 I was losing interest every time I went to, you know, class. I was just like, "This is not what I wanna do." Mm. 4:59 So I dropped out and then continued working for another six months at a pub, just working with myself, trying to figure out what I wanna do, but also just taking time. Mm-hmm. 5:11 Yeah, I think that's an interesting point too, because there is this perception when we're younger that you're at a high school, you're a child, and then you're told that you have to pick something that you essentially wanna do for the rest of your life- Exactly... 5:24 which is an insanely daunting experience as a child [laughs]. I know, and there's just so many different jobs and pathways out there, and it's just like you're not made aware of that. 5:35 I mean, I think it's better today, but at the time it was just like we weren't made aware of that. Yeah, I fully agree. So I think that's a really interesting starting off point. 5:44 So you went from dropping out of uni, working in a pub, which by the way, absolutely no shame in that game because everyone that I know in the social hospitality is a phenomenal operator. 5:53 So I think that's a really great start. And then where did you go from there? [laughs] Yeah, well, I guess after the pub you get sick of hospitality at one point, and- Of course... 6:03 there were Christmas jobs opening up at Mecca, Mecca Brands- And I was never really into beauty products or skincare, but I knew about Mecca, and I knew, you know, they sell some cool products. 6:16 So I was like, "Let's get out of this pub. Let's get a job there." So I got a job as a retail assistant at one of the Mecca stores, and it was a really fun time, you know, just having fun. I had a really good team. 6:29 I had a really good manager, and I'm still really close with her today. So in fact, I referred her over at Zip when I was working there, so she followed the same path, which was awesome. 6:41 But yeah, Mecca was a really fun time in, I guess, my early stage career, if you can call it. Yeah. 6:46 And I think it was the first time I, you know, not realizing it at the time, but like building connections, learning how to talk to people, you know, learning operations. So that was sort of, I guess, a starting point. 6:58 But I was still quite lost, you know. 7:01 I was working at Mecca, but I was also living a very young adult life and, you know, wasn't really doing much outside of that, wasn't doing much thinking about my career and, like, what was the next step I wanted to take. 7:13 I was just sort of enjoying the moment, having income. And then I just decided to actually get into marketing, because Mecca was... is really great at marketing, you know. They know their audience. 7:25 They, they know how to market their products, their brand- Yeah... not just to their buyers, but also to the employees. Everyone who worked at Mecca lived and breathed Mecca. Mm-hmm. Bit of a cult, but we, we love it. 7:37 Probably why, you know, Joe is so successful. She's built an empire. I don't think I really appreciated that until I, you know, started working at Zip. But yeah, so I started studying marketing part-time- Wow... 7:49 while I was working at Mecca, thinking that, you know, I wanna tap into the creative side. For me, this is something that seems fun, aligned with more what I wanna do. Where did you study marketing? 7:59 That was at Torrens University. So they're located in the Rocks, in the city. Actually, I think they've moved now, but that's where the university was at the time. 8:08 It's a smaller uni compared to, you know, your BQuaries and Sydneys and UNSW, but I think it was definitely more me, you know. It was a smaller hub- Mm-hmm... uh, and it was comfortable. 8:18 So you studied marketing, uh, which is interesting because you don't work in marketing. Exactly right. Yeah. [laughs] So how did you go from Mecca into Zip? 8:28 So I went traveling to Central America with Estelle and all my close friends that- Estelle Burton, who's- Estelle Burton... a previous group at You Guide Us, who we've had on the pod. So a little shout out to our gal. 8:41 Our girl gal. And her partner at the time was working at Zip, and she was like, "You should get a job at Zip. It sounds really fun. It's cool. It's this buy now, pay later that was coming and booming in Australia." 8:57 And I spoke with him, and he really sold me on the culture there. It just sounded like a fun place to work, and it was... The hours were good. 9:05 The pay was good, and we became really close throughout this trip traveling Central America. 9:10 So when I got back, I quit Mecca, and I took a job at Zip, still studying part-time marketing and part-time at Zip in the customer support team. So answering emails, taking phone calls. 9:24 Uh, yeah, that was a really good time, and it was the starting point really of my career in tech. And did you wanna quit Mecca or what was the... like, what was the kind of... And also, what year was this? 9:37 So, like, what kind of trajectory was Zip on? Yeah. This was 2017. Okay, cool. So early, early. Yeah. Um- And were you ready to quit Me- Mecca? 9:47 [laughs] Yeah, I was there for about a year and a half, and I was loving it, but at the same time, I wanted my weekends, I wanted consistent hours, and I wanted better pay as well. Um- [laughs] Yeah... 9:59 and 'cause working in retail, I just got bored of it as well. Similar to hospitality, it was fun. 10:05 It was a great way to meet people, build basic foundational skills, but I was ready to move on from the retail world and shift into tech. Not really with the focus of going into tech- Yeah... 10:18 but, uh, just trying- Just like intentional as a pivot. [laughs] Yeah. Trying out something new, and I had obviously heard of buy now, pay later through, you know, using Afterpay- Yeah... Zip's competitor. 10:30 Even when I was at Mecca, actually, I remember, I remember them sending out a survey to the employees asking about buy now, pay later services. Like, should we offer this? 10:39 And I think at the time there was, you know, a lot of concern around offering credit to young, young people who, who can't afford it. Hm. Yeah. Yeah. 10:48 Which I mean, is a fair, which is also like a, kind of like a fair thing to... It's in- interesting too that Mecca sent that survey out and sort of asked the employees how they felt about... 10:56 Like, I think that does actually speak to their culture of making you feel like you're a part of the brand. So then you start at Zip, customer service, and talk us through, like, the first... 11:05 'Cause I know you were there for, like, four, four years. Yeah. Almost, almost five years- Yeah... at Zip. It was a really- Which in startups is essentially a decade, 'cause you double it. [laughs] Exactly. 11:18 [laughs] As a veteran. Yeah. I, well, I started in the customer support team, so that is just like... And at the time, because it was a start, you know, all we wanted to do was just solve tickets. 11:28 So any, as many emails as you could in a day or as many calls as you could in the day. There was no quality control as such. 11:35 [laughs] Um, it was just like, how big can you get your bucket of tickets by the end of the day? And there were... it was like friendly competition. Yeah. 11:41 I would speed through them, and I s- managed to score the 7:00 AM to 3:00 PM shift, which was, like, good because I would get in, I would cherry-pick which tickets, and by the time everyone started work at 9:00, it was like 300 tickets done. 11:54 [laughs] Fun competition. And the culture was really great then. 11:57 I, I think working in a startup was really fun because reflecting on that, you know, I made close relationships with all the execs because they're heavily involved in every team. 12:08 And I think it's just because it's a smaller, I guess, community at the time, it was- Yeah... 12:13 it was just fun environment where everyone was really close, and even today, a lot of my closest friends are my Zip colleagues. Mm. Uh, so I'm, I'm very grateful to have those relationships today. 12:25 So how many people were at Zip when you started? There were about 120. Okay, cool. Uh, when I started. Yeah. I think they even had their 10th anniversary this year, and we're like, "We should have a Zippo jeans party." 12:40 That's cute. I love that. [laughs] And then so you went... So you started in customer service, but what was the trajectory at Zip like? How did you explore your career from there? Yeah. 12:51 So I was speaking to my manager when I was in customer support, talking about my career goals, and I was really enjoying Zip. 13:00 I was thriving there, and he asked me would I consider full-time, knowing that I was still studying part-time. And I was like, "Well, that's not..." 13:10 In my head I was like, "This isn't gonna be possible, but you know what? I love Zip so much. I love what I'm doing. 13:15 I'm gonna put my studying on hold and continue working full-time" as well as I was living out of home, so- Mm... sort of also needing the income too. 13:24 So I started working full-time in customer support for about 10 months, and that also included doing the merchant side, so merchant support, and then the sales team grew, Zip grew, and it came to a point where they needed someone to help train the merchants on how to use the product and support from that angle, and support the sales teams from that angle as well. 13:49 So an opening came up for a merchant training role, and I actually didn't go for it because my best friend at Zip I knew who was doing the same role as me in merchant support was applying for it. Right. 14:04 And she'd been there a bit longer, and I just told myself straightaway, "Don't go for it. She will get it. She deserves it. 14:11 I don't wanna step on our friendship" so I actually didn't apply, and the manager of that role, of the, of the merchant training role came up to me. She goes, "Why aren't you applying?" 14:23 And I was like, "Oh, you know, so-and-so's going for it, and it's just probably not the right time for me." And she goes, "No, there's two openings. You should definitely go for it." 14:33 And she's like, "Even so, you know, even if there was one opening, you should go for it anyway because, you know, this is you, it's your career. It's a growing... Yeah, it's an opportunity for you." Mm. 14:44 So went for the role and landed in the partner training role alongside my friend, which was- [laughs] Great... great. Was a win-win. [laughs] Yeah. So that was a new opportunity to carve out, not just I guess a new 15:02 mark in my career, but also carving out the role because it didn't exist at Zip. It's not like we were taking or fulfilling someone else's role. It was brand new to the company. 15:12 It was really fun to strategize how we were gonna do this role, how we were gonna make impact at Zip doing this role, and shaping the responsibilities and what we would be, I guess, overseeing. 15:23 Which is a cool part, I think, of working in a startup, which maybe we forget to acknowledge ourselves sometimes, which is a lot of the time you're doing something for the first time. 15:37 Like, you're never gonna join CommBank and get a role that you have to completely, like, figure out what it means. [laughs] Yeah, exactly. Yeah. 15:48 It was, it was fun because we, we sat in with the sales team, so we were in the sales enabling team, but we sat sort of like supporting the sales team, so we did get to start having those customer-facing relationships with our merchants, you know, figuring out what the challenges were, where the sticky points are, and sort of, I guess, help closing the gap there with other cross-functional teams, and I think that's where I sort of started building my passion of working with cross-functional stakeholders and finding out where we can support each other, which has sort of carried out to the role that I'm in today. 16:22 Yeah. And so was that, was that autonomy and that strategizing and building out, was that something that you realized at that time or maybe in hindsight, oh, this is what I wanna do. I wanna build, build stuff? 16:33 I would say that probably came in the next role that I took after partner merchant training was the partner onboarding role. Mm-hmm. Uh, so, and this is really funny, my manager at the time, she was like, "You've..." 16:48 We were having a one-on-one, it was my end of year review chat, and she's like, "Yeah, we're going to promote you" and I just started crying. [laughs] And I, so looking back I'm like, why did I cry? Um- [laughs]... 16:59 this, this was not tears of happiness. I just felt like I didn't deserve it. 17:04 I don't know why I was being promoted, and I think it was the first time I was really experiencing imposter syndrome and I just- Why did you think you didn't deserve it? Because I felt like I hadn't taken... 17:15 I hadn't driven any significant impact in my role at that time just yet. You know, I felt like I hadn't taken on really big projects. 17:24 I hadn't taken on any large enterprise merchant training yet, and I just was telling myself, you know, "You're lucky you've got this role, you've had this opportunity, but you still need to prove yourself" and I don't, or I didn't feel at the time that I had done that, you know? 17:42 So yeah, my work And looking back on it, what, what did she d- what was her justification just to try and help, I guess, navigate those feelings? Like, what was her justification for the promotion? 17:53 So it goes back to saying this role was new, you know, and we built it out from scratch. Mm. She goes, "That's, that's what you've done. That's the impact you've done, you know? 18:04 And now is we have someone to, like, support our merchants from this angle, actually understand the product, build out content for not just the merchants, but also our sales teams, and I guess closing the knowledge gaps between merchant sales and being the core enabler of, of our go-to-market teams." 18:23 So that, that was her justification behind it. 18:25 She goes, "It doesn't matter about how many projects you've done or anything, but it's more about what have you done today, what have you created" and, and that was building the bridge or the foundations of partner training at Zip. 18:39 That, that I think that's really interesting, right? 18:41 Because essentially that they were honoring and, and respecting soft skills, which I think you, for everything you've sort of said, your dad's semi-obsession with, you know, doing well and academics, and then your feeling that you had to subscribe to your, your kind of cohort from high school doing well or going to big universities and things like that, you- it feels like you based your whole life off of thinking that you had to succeed in a, in a super linear way. 19:12 But what you're obviously very good at, and I'm sure you know this now, is those softer skills of talking to people and, and that's what's kind of interestingly... 19:22 I have this weird theory that you can try and push against like what you're meant to do, but you'll end up doing what you're meant to do. 19:28 And so it feels like you're very high EQ and soft skill-based, and that was suddenly being like honored and respected, and you were always still trying to push against that and be, "No, I don't deserve it." Yeah. 19:40 But the world is being, "Absolutely not, bitch. Like, this is, this is right." Exactly. I know. And I, to be honest, I think I'm still learning to, I guess, stop underestimating myself today, you know? Yeah. 19:54 Actually telling myself that I am capable, and in some areas I'm more than capable and I just need to, you know, challenge the negative thoughts that I have when it, when it comes to, you know, self-promotion. Yeah. 20:05 Even when we were, like, discussing this podcast, you kept saying like, "No, I have nothing to say." Yeah. 20:09 And I was like, "You literally have one of the most interesting stories, like, how did my mecha girlie become a finance guy?" Like, that's what I wanna tell people. [laughs] Yeah, I know. 20:20 I- it's, it's always been a sticky point with me. It's like, "Oh, I don't have a uni degree," you know, I'm just... I'm always in the backburner or trying to figure things out. But it's, it's always... 20:31 And that's what I mean, talking to people really helps to overcome that, you know? There's a lot of people I've met today that don't have uni degrees and are killing it, so. Yeah. Yeah. 20:41 I, I think that's the whole, like, that's the whole point of the pod, right? Like, you don't have to be what you're told you can be. And I think that 20:50 we are super lucky in a funny way because we're probably the first generation that's started to understand that, and I'm so jealous of the Gen Zs of the world because they've grown up knowing that they don't have to do that. 21:02 And also, if you wanna do that, pop off queen, go ahead, pay me on Monday. There's no, there's no shame in what you wanna do. But it's so nice that... 21:10 I mean, it sucks that it sort of took you this self-beating way to get there, [laughs] but I'm so glad you got there. No, it's good. 21:18 I, I mean, I love what I'm doing and I'm surrounded by very smart, intelligent people who have come from similar pathways, so. Yeah. So fast-forwarding through Zip. So you cry, you get a promotion [laughs] 21:30 and then your role, so another new role, so onboarding enterprise customers? Correct. Yeah. 21:36 So Zip started scaling, and they needed, I guess, a middleman to help onboard large enterprise customers, just making sure, almost sort of project managing the end-to-end experience for them. 21:48 So that meant I was working closely with the sales team or the deal owner, the, the integrations team, the marketing team, and the account management team. So again, this was a new role to Zip. It didn't exist before. 22:03 And I was already sort of sitting closely with sa- the sales team. So, and this was really fun because I think I found my love for sort of project management and, you know, designing the end-to-end experience and 22:16 driving impact from a new angle at Zip that didn't really exist before. And again, it allowed me to continue that close collaboration with cross-functional stakeholders and sort of understanding... 22:29 I guess, actually, this is also, it sort of raised awareness to myself that I didn't wanna do marketing. Working closely with the marketing team, I was like, "No, I don't like this." [laughs] Yeah. 22:43 So part of, you know, onboarding a enterprise customer was building a launch campaign. Yeah. And I think seeing how that was created and stuff, I was like, "Well, you know what? 22:53 I'm not, I'm not really passionate about that either," you know? 22:56 [laughs] No, I lo- I love working with the marketing stakeholders, and it's cool to see their, what they produce and design and go to market with, but that's when I decided, okay, I'm not going to be going back to my marketing studies. 23:10 Mm-hmm. I'm going to continue my career here at Zip and see how I go. I'm just in, going the ride, yeah. And it was, look, reflecting now, it was a really safe... 23:22 I guess Zip created a really safe place for me to develop the foundations of my career, my skills, and I guess understanding of the fintech world. 23:32 I think that's such a great, like, 'cause you're obviously learning by doing, which if you think about it, is, is how we should do it. Like, we should, we should, like, learn what we wanna do by doing what we do. 23:44 Because, like, how many kids go and do a degree, like, say law, with no actual concept of, like, what being a lawyer means? Yeah. Oh, 100%. 23:53 And then imagine studying for five years and passing the bar and then getting into your lawyer and then being like, "Oh, I hate this." Well, that's exactly what happened to one of my best friends. 24:02 [laughs] Lauren was like, "You know what? This is a unhappy life for me" and moved to Xero. So now she's in the tech world too. So good. So all right. So managing... 24:11 Y- you're doing onboarding enterprise customers, and then how did you go from obviously this job that you adored to leaving? Like, what was that like? 24:21 So I'd been at Zip, you know, since the startup days and now we were a global business. We were operating in the US, the UK, New Zealand. 24:30 And I was really fortunate to be on that journey and actually get to work with our global stakeholders. But at the same time, I became really comfortable because I was known as a veteran at Zip, you know, once... 24:43 If you were part of the early days, everyone was like, "This person knows their shit. They know Zip inside and out." Yeah, I think I became too comfortable and I felt quite stagnant. Mm-hmm. 24:53 I didn't feel like I was developing skill, I wasn't growing. 24:56 There was a lot of change in management, and I just felt like I wasn't getting that guidance anymore in terms of how I should be shaping this role, or how should I be driving it forward. 25:06 In particular, I was promoted to a management role and had my own team, and I didn't get a lot of guidance on how to manage, and I didn't do a great job at figuring it out for myself either. Mm. 25:18 Um, and yeah, I think, you know, it... I just felt stuck but comfortable, you know? Yeah. I could have stayed there for- forever but, you know, I knew that I was, you know, 27. I was still really young. 25:31 So then I received a LinkedIn message from now my current manager around a new opportunity at Airwallex, and I did a bit of research. I was like, "Oh, this seems pretty cool. Still fintech." And 25:46 we had a phone call, we had a chat on the phone, and she told me about the role, which was still... sounded like she was still shaping it. 25:53 It was a bit business operations for, for their platform team, and I was like, "I think this is my moment to, to leave Zip." Mm. She sounds like she knows her shit. She sounds like a really good manager. 26:07 This sounds like an exciting opportunity. Let's, let's take it, or let's go through the interview process and, and just see how I go. 26:14 Um- I think that's a good point, too, 'cause, like, I think, you know, as much as we love to build up startups, I think there's, like any job, there's also things that they do badly. 26:24 And I think, to your point of not training people on how to manage people is a massive, massive flaw in the system because so often, like, you do, you just get... 26:34 You get really good at your job, and then you get promoted to a place that you're in charge of other people, and managing human beings is, like, the most difficult thing you could ever do in your life, 'cause people are messy and flawed. 26:50 [laughs] Yeah. Not, not chill. [laughs] Exactly, and you're dealing with different expectations as well, you know? Yeah. 26:58 And I, th- I was managing two people, and they were very, very different in terms of their approach with their work and, like- Yeah... 27:05 where they wanted to go with their career, and I was like, "Gosh, I don't even know what I'm doing with, like, my career." Yeah. [laughs] How do I steer you? [laughs] Yeah. Sure. No, I like... 27:16 Yeah, I have experienced that so many times. So all right. So you take the job at Airwallex? Yeah. Started at Airwallex in the platform team, which was, at the time, quite its own space at Airwallex. 27:28 Like, you had the SME and growth team, and then you had the platform team, and then we sort of went through a bit of a restructure and our business operations team became revenue operations, and we developed, I guess, our global team. 27:42 So we brought in some leadership from the SME team, so I sort of handle the enterprise side, well, platform now, now called enterprise. Th- th- And yeah- Yeah... now we're a team of I think six, I wanna say. 27:55 So for anyone that doesn't know, what does Airwallex do? So Airwallex is a, I guess, a multinational financial technology company, and we offer financial services. 28:07 I guess there's sort of three, I guess, pillars, three sides of the business. Yeah. 28:11 So we have business accounts where customers can open Airwallex accounts online in minutes, and that gives them access to make transfers internationally with a no-code solution. It's like a, a web app. 28:25 You know, streamline expenses and global treasury, and then we have our... So that's a, that's a core part of our business, and specifically s- sort of what our SME and growth team focus on. 28:36 Then we have our core APIs as well, so for businesses looking for, I guess, a more customizable 28:42 solution for their financial infrastructure, where they can just sort of embed Airwallex's APIs and, and I guess do mass payouts, mass collections in multiple different currencies. 28:55 And then we also have our embedded finance solutions. So this is more for platforms and marketplaces looking to, I guess, generate new lines of revenue and building on top of Airwallex's infrastructure. So 29:12 yeah, and this is sort of the area that I, well, focus with our sales teams. 29:17 So yeah, it's a bit of a plug-in service to their customers, building functions, but essentially Airwallex is behind the scenes powering that infrastructure. Spicy, spicy question. 29:27 Is Airwallex the Australian version of Stripe? [laughs] Yes. I would... Yes. So in your role at Airwallex now, so what, what are your, what are you doing? 29:40 'Cause I think you've got one of those titles that I love, which is I have no idea what you do. And you know what? I get asked the question within the business from our... 29:48 [laughs] From my friends, they're like, "What do you actually do?" 29:51 So I sit in the global revenue operations team, so pretty much looking at revenue-generating processes, initiatives, strategies, and in a nutshell, I guess, how do we drive predictable revenue growth? Mm-hmm. 30:06 Um, and part of that is, you know, looking at forecasting processes, standardizing processes, driving consistency across regions, and a lot of stakeholder management and driving alignment between cross-functional teams. 30:22 So not just sales, but marketing, channel partnerships, all our, our go-to-market teams, and just ensuring best practices are met. And we do have also our, working with our regional RevOps leaders as well, so. 30:37 So super strategic role. Yeah. Highly strategic, highly... That's where your EQ from all those other, like, experiences is coming in, right? 30:47 Because you're essentially deciding what the strategy is and then trying to bring everyone on board. So like a influencer within the business. 30:55 Yeah, and it's definitely a big change for me 'cause from coming from, I'm solving much more complex problems, but it's really exciting and I think in the year and a bit that I've been at Airwallex, I've learned an incredible amount. 31:09 Mm-hmm. Which is also, I find this stuff so interesting because, like, one of the number one things I see people that are trying to leave traditional businesses say is like, "I wanna work in strategy." 31:20 Like, that's, everyone wants to work in strategy, which blows my mind 'cause to me strategy is like the... For me, strategy is like the most boring part of what I have to do, but I need it. 31:28 But what I find interesting is I don't think those people that are going, "I wanna work in strategy," are thinking, "I wanna work as a RevOps person," right? 'Cause, like, 31:39 everyone's like, "I want a sexy title, like product manager." But realistically, like, if you go into a startup, 31:46 just take a job because you can shape, like, what you're doing and you can learn, like, how to influence and strategically align businesses in so many different roles. [laughs] Exactly. 31:56 You're wearing, I mean, especially in startups, you're wearing multiple different hats, you know? Yeah. You're doing 10 different roles in one. And it's funny 'cause people are like, "Why, why do you wanna do that?" 32:06 You know, "Why do you love process? That sounds like my worst nightmare." 32:09 And I, it was funny, I never was able to explain it until, um, my manager recently gifted me a book called Scaling People, and it's, it's written by Claire Hughes Johnson, who is Stripe's former COO. Nice. 32:25 And she put it in a really good way. She said, you know, "Why is the game fun? Um, because it has rules and there's a way to win." 32:33 You know, if you put pe- people out in a field with, you know, equipment, people are gonna get hurt. They won't know what to do. They don't know how to win. 32:40 So that is what, you know, why I love dri- driving and building processes because, you know, it helps us to pave a way on working together and making sure that everyone wins and the company wins. So that was... 32:54 I'm glad I now have a way to explain that to people. 32:56 [laughs] That's so cool as well because you've come so far in recognizing that, back to that point earlier about being unconventional, you've made an unconventional pathway to a very conventional way of thinking, which is also great 'cause you got there so organically and so naturally. 33:12 It's, "Oh, I actually really like setting up the processes and making things work, and understand that I'm a core player in that role" without, like... Yeah, it's just so nice. Such an organic growth. 33:22 And it's interesting 'cause, like, everyone in my team has come from different backgrounds, you know? Mm. Like consultants, ex-analysts. It's, it's interesting. 33:30 We're, we've all got different backgrounds, but yeah, it's, it's great to have, um, different perspectives on, you know, scoping out a, a solution and, and yeah, driving impact. 33:41 So then, like, on that very same train of thinking, if you could rewind and go back to, like, Monica 33:50 feeling like she's flailing after university, what advice now in hindsight would you give yourself if you could go back in time? Yeah. I think, it's a good question. There's a lot of lessons I would give myself, 34:03 obviously. [laughs] I think one of them is just take time, you know? Mm. Don't succumb to pressure, you know, figure it out first. Don't rush into things, you know, and build self-awareness. 34:13 Find out what you love doing, what you don't, what you're good at, where your capability gaps lie. And then from there, as I mentioned earlier, just don't underestimate yourself. 34:24 Now that you know you're self-aware and you know what you love doing, you know your operating rhythm, don't underestimate yourself because that really does hold you back. Mm. 34:36 I have experienced that multiple times, having that mindset, so challenge, challenging my negative thoughts. Mm. And do you find yourself intentionally challenging your negative thoughts now? 34:46 Or is it something you're kind of continually working on? I'd say I'm definitely continually working on it. Okay. 34:50 But definitely a lot more comfortable with myself, and I think as well I have such great management at the moment in terms of being surrounded by strong leaders who, uh, teach me a lot and so open to having a conversation with me, and not just about the role itself but, you know, looking at the bigger picture- Mm... 35:10 of things. And additionally, uh, additionally as well I was going to say is my ex-manager from Zip, I still have a really close relationship and I would say she's actually my mentor. So maybe- Mm... 35:23 that's another piece of advice I would've given myself is, like, find a mentor. Mm. 35:27 'Cause they help to build you both personally and professionally and help you figure out how to overcome those challenges and give you a different lens, lens on things in a way that you hadn't thought before, so. 35:39 Yeah, I fully agree. 35:40 My first boss from Baroda, he's like, probably, whether he likes it or not, has become like my sensei both like [laughs] personally, professionally, and emotionally, which is such a funny thing to say. 35:54 Like- Yeah, I was like, you know it's a space free of judgment with them, you know? Mm. Express thoughts that you may have considered dumb that you wouldn't wanna say in the workplace, even those- Yes... 36:04 I shouldn't think that way, I know. But yeah, I guess getting, getting insights from, from a different angle. Do you think that the whole... 36:11 I, I struggle with this whole concept of imposter syndrome because I feel like it over-indexes in women, which makes me angry, but also it's real, so I should be angry about it. Yeah. 36:21 But do you still on a day-to-day basis, do you think that's something that you're still kind of dealing with and, and having to retrain yourself on? 100%, yeah. 36:30 Even outside of work as well, you know, when I talk to my friends, they're like, "Monica, you have such... You built yourself, like, such a great, like, great strong career. Stop letting yourself down." 36:41 And honestly, at first I found that really frustrating because I was like, "Oh, my friends don't understand what I do in my day-to-day role. They don't know the deep weeds that I struggle with at work." 36:51 And then looking back, I was like, "You know what? They know me more than anyone else. They know sort of those challenges that I've been through, just even outside of work." Mm. 36:59 So yeah, it's definitely something I still try to manage and get over, but like I said, I do have really strong leaders, and I'm very grateful for that because both, both managers are women and they know their shit, and they're someone that I look up to because I guess they've, they've built a great platform. 37:19 They're very well respected in the business. In my eyes, I'm like, "You guys are a unicorn." [laughs] Yeah. 37:24 I, I love that I get to learn off them as well, and I think they help as well build, I guess, strategies around my way of thinking, and it's up to me to ultimately put that into practice. Mm. 37:36 What do you think your most valuable skill is now with all that kind of self-learning and self-evaluation? 37:43 Now that you can kind of look back, what is the thing that you've realized is your strongest skill set as an operator? Building relationships, 100%. 37:50 I think I find it really easy to connect to people, which is definitely a strong part of what I do in my everyday role across the business. But now I'm on this path. 38:02 I know how to make relationships, build rapport, get feedback, and all the contacts that I need, but how do I then up the ante there and actually get them to trust me in driving, you know, decision-making and proposing solutions and that's where I say I'm... 38:18 What I'm working on now in terms of bringing that valuable skill to the next level. Mm. So yeah, that's actually, let's dive into that a little bit more. 38:26 So what do you think you're working on at the moment, and what, why are you working on it? Yeah. 38:31 So a lot of my role is getting alignment across different regions and driving best practice, and I think I'm really good at context gathering and scoping, scoping out a problem, and then the next stage is obviously, all right, let's, let's put a solution forward. 38:47 And I think when I'm on calls with these stakeholders, it's like I, I know the answer, or at least I know a starting point, but I don't always put that forward. I'm always like, "You know what? 38:57 Yep, let me come back to you with, you know, my recommendations on how we think we're gonna go about this," and just, like, trust my instincts in terms of putting forward a solution. 39:07 So that's something I am actively working on, as well as backing myself with, you know, data. We have all the data. What is the impact going to be if we do or don't do this? 39:18 And making that really clear to the stakeholders that I'm working with, because that's ultimately part of, you know, building their trust is that I've, I've looked into it, I've scoped out the problem, and this is why. 39:28 So it's, like, back to confidence, hey? Like, everything- Yeah... 39:30 is, is kind of going back to, like, being confident in your opinion and being confident in your intelligence and being confident that you've done the work. Yeah, 100%. 39:39 Which, like, probably you're discovering in this podcast, as am I, it all stems from that early, early thing, right? Which was being told that you had to do things a certain way. 39:50 So because you haven't done them a certain way, you don't believe- Mm... that you have the right to be in the room. Yeah, definitely. Which is wild, because you, like, literally built the right to be in the room. 40:00 [laughs] I think it's just, it's, yeah. I think I have maybe a bad habit of just thinking, "Wow, this person really knows what they're talking about. Do I?" [laughs] And, and that's, that's when it start going downhill. 40:12 [laughs] That's the intrusive thought. [laughs] Yeah. Which is interesting too, 'cause as you get older, you just start to realize that I think when you're a kid, you know, adults know what they're talking about. 40:21 Adults are right. [laughs] They are smart. And then when you're around this age of 30, you're like, "I'm an adult now." [laughs] I know. It's crazy. [laughs] God, how do I, how did I get here? Yeah. Exactly right. 40:35 And it's interesting because I do have a few friends who are sort of still in their early 20s or starting out, you know, their first professional job that have, that have asked to talk to me, and it's not... I've... 40:48 Talking to them makes me realize, wow, like really reflect on my journey and I'm like, you know what? I'm actually quite proud of where I am today and how I got here. [laughs] So- Yeah, you should be. That's awesome... 40:58 yeah, it's nice to be able to actually offer advice to the younger folks coming in. [laughs] Yeah. On that same topic too, what's your kind of vision for your future? Where do you wanna grow from now? Like, you've... 41:13 It seems to me, honestly, even in knowing you probably almost for a year now, like you've- Mm... 41:19 kind of come leaps and bounds in, like, understanding your value and, and really starting to figure out that you're actually a bit of a boss bitch and you kill it. So, like, what's next? Like, what's your vision? 41:31 I definitely want to master the role of RevOps. Yeah. I think there's so much opportunity still in this space, and I think RevOps is growing fast in, in companies today. 41:44 You know, I think it's one of the most fastest growing roles. So really becoming a subject matter expert and understanding the fundamentals and definitely improve on my skills there. 41:53 I was actually thinking about, you know, what, what is the future of RevOps and- Mm... 41:58 it sort of, you know what I was thinking about is our conversation that we had over coffee when you were, like, talking about how you're really getting into AI. Mm. 42:04 And I was like, a lot of RevOps is all about finding automation. You know, how can we- Mm... make things easier, more seamless and frictionless? I'm like, AI's definitely going to play a part in where RevOps is heading. 42:16 [laughs] Awesome. It's, it's scary, but I guess you have to look at the positive side of it and, and see how they'll work in tandem. 42:22 I feel like I'm the biggest cheerleader for AI, and it's really funny because, like, a lot of people that orbit me have been quite nervous about AI. 42:30 And as you know, I sound like such a tech bro doing a podcast, but as you know, I love, like I just, I love things that are weird and unusual and that I can play with, I guess. I have a real, real... 42:41 You, you set the systems, I wanna break them. That's kind of, [laughs] that's like my personality type. 42:47 But I've found out recently that I'm really good at bringing people on board with not being scared of things like AI. And I love that you said, "Oh, it is the future of RevOps," because it absolutely... 43:00 Like, when we talk about, like, efficiency, and also I think everyone's big fear about AI is, "It's gonna take my job." 43:06 It's actually just gonna take the part of your job that you hate doing, and you, you shouldn't have to do the part of your job that you hate doing. [laughs] Yeah. That is a very good way to think about it. Yeah. 43:15 I don't understand why we're, "Oh, as a junior you should have to do really shit jobs for two years before you've proven..." 43:21 So let's employ the robots to do the things that we don't wanna do, so we don't have to underpay early 20-year-olds to hate their life for four years. That's bizarre to me. 43:30 Have their six years of work experience before they apply for- Exactly... something. Like, waste of people's brains. And I mean, look, I think the other side, and I'm going on a tangent here, but I'm opening up to it. 43:42 The other thing that I think is gonna become a huge proponent of the advancement and proliferation of AI is we are going to need universal basic income, which I'm a huge advocate for because I'm a little capitalist pig and love it. 43:58 I love progressing and I love doing well. That is, that's part of my nature, but that's also not everyone, and I don't think you should have to be like that. 44:06 I want a world where some people are just creators, and some people just create art or create music and still are able to exist and live. There... 44:16 I have so many friends who are amazing artists, and they're killing themselves trying to make money to pay for insanely expensive apartments in Sydney for what value, and detracting from what they're actually good at, which is creating things for the world. 44:29 Yeah. And like, your story reminds me so much of that. 44:31 Imagine if people could just do what they're good at and what they enjoy doing, and how productive society could become if we just stopped forcing everyone to be a square peg in a round hole. Yeah, absolutely. And I... 44:44 It's, it's... 44:45 I actually think, like you said, the younger generation are already getting that mindset a lot earlier now, so they're much more open to sort of, I guess, being okay about not knowing where they're going or their future, but just taking a ride and, you know, exploring the opportunities, trying new things, try it out for a bit, try the next thing- Mm... 45:05 then try the next thing after that, and finding out what is it that they really wanna do. So, like, in a way you're actually just way ahead of your time. You're just in the wrong body. 45:13 Like, you're Gen Z in a millennial body. I'm gonna take that. I'm gonna take that. [laughs] I'm putting that on my LinkedIn. [laughs] Perfect. 45:22 So going back to Airwallex just quickly, what would you say is the vibe of the team? Like, what, what's the kind of cultural aspect of it? What's the vibe of the team? 45:32 It's funny 'cause like I said, we've all sort of come from different backgrounds. It's a very... 45:36 Okay, I would say it's, like, a very collaborative team, where we will always have crossover, but everyone is sort of encouraged to be accountable, building their own initiatives, and taking ownership of finding the gaps. 45:51 Mm. Uh, in terms of the culture of the team, I think, you know, we're all... Especially because we're all in different locations- Mm... um, it's really important to make sure that we are connected in one way or another. 46:02 Um, and I think just bringing each other in on projects is, is a great way. 46:07 Like, for example, I have another guy on my team who's based in Singapore, and we work really closely together, and even just, like, setting up time to have a chinwag and discuss all things, you know, work-related and not work-related is a great way to sort of stay connected. 46:24 And even just on the team, like, sharing best practices. Every month we have, you know, our learnings and our challenges and how to improve as a team moving forward. 46:32 I think because we all sort of have our function within global RevOp, but at the same time, there's always [laughs] going to be crossover. 46:40 Like, an example is, like, I work, I work on the enterprise side, and then I have another friend who works on the SME side, but there's initiatives where, you know, are gonna benefit both business units, so how do we work on that together? 46:52 So we're very collaborative. That's cool. And on that same kind of vein of thinking, what are some tools or resources that you kind of live and die by? Yeah. 47:01 Resources, I follow a couple of RevOps subject matter experts or rock stars, I guess. Um- I love that. Tell us. Yeah. [laughs] What, who are the influencers in RevOps? [laughs] One of them is Rosalynn Santa Elena. 47:14 I discovered her actually through Pavilion, which is this learning development platform where you can do courses, short courses. But she is the founder of the RevOps Collective and has a whole bunch of experience. 47:27 She also does have a podcast as well. I haven't yet listened to it, but I think it, I think it's called the RevEngine Podcast. 47:33 But yeah, she has a wealth, wealth of experience, so taking insights from a RevOps collective, as well as Jeff Ignacio. He... 47:42 I subscribe to his weekly newsletters, and I love, I love his newsletters because it goes back to the foundations of RevOps, and every week it's a new topic, and he puts all these other sources in there and it's, it's great for me to sort of understand RevOps from different, I guess, different insights and it's very how do I make this relevant to the projects that I'm working on. 48:06 I think actually sort of Pavilion's done a good job at that, at build- bringing re- not just revenue people, but, you know, sales, marketing very- Together... all together. 48:15 Uh, the amount of people that connect with me on LinkedIn and say, "Hey, I've seen that you're part of Pavilion. Love to connect," and I'm like, "Wow, it's a great space to network." 48:24 Um- So that was actually gonna be a question that I asked you is talk us quickly through what Pavilion is, because I saw it on your LinkedIn. Yeah. So we- And I've never seen it before. Yeah. It's... 48:36 We had an L&D budget at Airwallex, and so we decided to invest in Pavilion, where it's pretty much a online uni for people who wanna do short courses. 48:46 So you can do, you know, like two-week courses, 10-week courses, and there's different, I guess, different topics in the course catalog, so you can do focus on, say, forecasting processes- Mm... 48:56 or there's one on developing operating cadences. 48:59 There's so many different courses you can pick, and so I've done a couple of them- Just because it's helpful to, I guess, like I said, understand the fundamentals of my role and how to go about Mm... ones. 49:11 And but more so I actually just enjoyed, there's this whole, once you subscribe, you also get access to their Slack platform- Mm... 49:19 um, and you can connect with people, or you can chuck a question out there that you're battling with and you wanna understand how other people do it. So I've done that a couple of times, and it's been, it's been helpful. 49:30 Ah, yes, the power of community, one of the most underrated [laughs] things- [laughs]... in business. 49:38 [laughs] And so bit of a change of trade thinking, what do you think has been your toughest lesson learned in your career? Toughest lesson learned. Hardest pill to swallow. Mm. You can't say yes to everything. 49:53 I think I have a habit of always wanting to help, which is great, but not at the expense of deprioritizing the bigger initiatives that I should be focusing on that are gonna drive bigger impact. 50:07 So especially in my role today where I'm working with multiple regions, and one region might be experiencing, you know, a challenge that another isn't, like, what, what's the trade-off? Mm. 50:18 No, that's, the fact that you said that just hits me so close to home at the moment 'cause I think it's a lesson I'm relearning at the moment. 50:25 In my new role, I have a lot of stakeholders, and they all think that their thing is the most important thing in the world, and I'm so like that. I'm like, "Oh my God, it is the most important thing." 50:37 But I can be on six calls and be, "Oh my God, your, your thing is the most important thing," and then jump to the next one and be, "Oh my God, your thing is the most important thing." 50:44 [laughs] And learning to step back and think about what is the most important thing for the actual business, and then having to say no to people, which is the most terrifying [laughs] experience. Yeah, 100%. 50:57 I think another part of that is that, you know, my manager was like, "You need to also understand when it should be you driving it versus another team, and you can help support saying, you know, on the why it needs to be done and making them see, you know, what will happen if they do or don't do it." 51:14 Yeah. It's not actually up to you to, to own that initiative. It's- And then what's, like, your number one strategy that you go to on a day-to-day basis? Hmm. Number one strategy. 51:29 Or, like, framework, how do you break things down? How do you solve problems when you're facing a challenging rev ups, and you, you know, ask the community in Pavilion, then how do you kind of structure that problem? 51:38 Yeah. Always go to the data first, you know. Understand the data, you scope out the context from, get feedback from all the stakeholders, and then start drawing, start drawing your solutions. What are the options? Mm. 51:55 That's sort of how I like to do it. Data, feedback, scope the solutions- Bring people on board... bring people on board, drive that stakeholder management. 52:04 What do you think is the future of rev ups in Australian startups? Sell rev ups to the startups of the world that haven't maybe yet filled that gap. Yeah. If you don't... 52:15 I guess rev ups is a way to break siloed efforts- Mm... fragmented teams, and if you start, if you continue that way, then you're gonna see a break in the systems, and the gap will end up coming up. 52:27 So bring in a rev up stakeholder, build out that rev ups team, let them help you drive scalable revenue generation. But all right. Well, I think we're gonna wrap it up. So 52:40 just to finish up, reflecting now on this whole conversation, what do you think is the most amazing and interesting thing about your career? Yeah. 52:48 I'm gonna challenge you with a little imposter syndrome and make you answer why you're so great. [laughs] I love this. Why am I so great? I think I've just, perseverance, you know. I've just always pushed through. 53:00 I've always taken on a challenge even though I've initially said no, and it's got me where I am today. 53:07 It's got me through multiple different experiences that have helped build, I guess, my skills, my confidence, and I guess the role that I'm in today and feeling like I'm doing a good job. 53:21 You know, I'm waking up, and I'm excited to go to work. I'm excited to see what's on my to-do list, and yeah, just grateful for the experiences that have come. And I'm, I'm, overall, I'm, I am proud of, 53:37 of how I've got here, and although I have said that I'm still getting over the imposter syndrome, [laughs] it's definitely, definitely in a better place than where I was, say, a year ago even. Yeah. I would second that. 53:51 And well, Monica, I wanna say a massive thank you. 53:53 I think this has been such a amazing episode, but also just a really important episode for people that think that they're not doing the right thing, that we exist on this orbit for a certain amount of years, and that's literally it, and after that you don't exist anymore. 54:09 [laughs] There's just no point wasting time thinking about stupid shit that other people prescribe to you. Yeah. I guess thank you for having me on your podcast. 54:16 I know that I initially was like, I do not have anything to offer. [laughs] But no, it's, again, like I said, it's speaking to people myself and realizing, wow, I have been on a journey, and it's been a good one. 54:29 Or been a great one, and just having a moment of reflection. So thank you for having me on your podcast. Literally anytime. And that's it for today. 54:38 Today's episode was recorded and edited by me, your host, Philemon Nyon. With original music composition by Stephen Shoutan and photography by Philip Limosuria. Thanks for listening, and we'll see you next time.
